RBIs (September 15, 2003)
Bill James and Craig Wright get quoted a few times here.
--posted by TangoTiger at 04:03 PM EDT
Posted 6:39 p.m.,
September 15, 2003
(#1) -
Crack
Surprisingly good article. One thing wich (I think) was not mentioned as a reason why today's hitters get fewer RBI even tho they hit more homers, etc., is the improvement in fielding. This is one of the reasons why modern high offense is built on the HR, as opposed to the high 1930s offensive teams.
Posted 1:11 a.m.,
September 16, 2003
(#2) -
Robert Dudek
Bat Derek Jeter leadoff, Barry Bonds 2nd and Vlad Guerrero 3rd. The record would fall.
Posted 10:35 a.m.,
September 16, 2003
(#3) -
Steinbrenner
Cashman, hire that Dudek dude.
Posted 12:44 p.m.,
September 16, 2003
(#4) -
Torre
I'm thinking a lineup of Jeter batting leadoff, Vidro second, Marcus Giles third, and Albert Pujols fourth would crush the record.
Posted 2:28 p.m.,
September 16, 2003
(#5) -
OCF
But we've had a 165 RBI year in recent memory, and it could have been more. A run at Wilson's record could happen in real life.
The team was the 1999 Cleveland Indians, and the lineup was quite well-constructed to build RBI's for one big bopper.
Leadoff was Kenny Lofton, with a .405 OBP.
Batting second was Omar Vizquel, with a .397 OBP.
Batting third was Roberto Alomar, with a .422 OBP.
Lofton, Vizquel, and Alomar hit 7, 5, and 24 HR, so they weren't particularly cleaning off the bases themselves. However, they hit quite a few doubles among them and all three were good, high-percentage base stealers.
That sets up a big opportunity for a cleanup hitter, and the Indians had a cleanup hitter - Manny Ramirez, .333/.442/.663, XBH line of 34-3-44. Ramirez was adequately "protected" (not that I believe in that) by Jim Thome at .277/.476/.540. There was good productivity in the back of the order as well, so it was a big scoring team and the lineup kept rolling around for more opportunities.
Ramirez recorded 165 RBI.
Even so, it wasn't everything it could have been.
Lofton only played 120 games. It looks like most of his playing time was taken by Dave Roberts, who was bad that year (OBP < .300). It's not clear who batted leadoff, but there wasn't another Lofton available.
Ramirez himself only played 147 games. At the rate he was going, another 12-13 games would have pushed his RBI to 180.
You can't really find any fault with Ramirez - but Sammy Sosa hitting 60+ HR in the same lineup spot would have had more RBI than Manny did.
Posted 5:00 p.m.,
September 16, 2003
(#6) -
reno dakota
I could be wrong, but I would think that batting Manny #3 that year would have gotten him even more ribs-- Alomar isn't there to clear the bases, and Manny gets maybe 50 more abs. It's possible that gets counterbalanced by not having Berto's .400+ OBP in front of him, but my instinct would be that Manny batting #3 and playing 162 games would get pretty darn close to the record.
Posted 5:32 p.m.,
September 16, 2003
(#7) -
OCF
I put that post up without reading the attached article, and now I'm sorry, because I didn't really add anything to what the author of the article had already said.
Posted 6:42 p.m.,
September 16, 2003
(#8) -
Scoriano
I believe Gehrig lost some RBI when Durocher screwed up running the bases the year he set the AL record. Maybe that's why the Yanks got rid of Leo so unceremoniously.
Posted 6:50 p.m.,
September 16, 2003
(#9) -
Scoriano
Nope, wrong anecdote--but he shoulda had 186 RBI:
From BaseballLibrary.com per Steve Holjte: "April 26, 1931: Dusty Cooke, Yankee RF, is hurt diving for a fly ball off the bat of Ossie Bluege of Washington. 1B Gehrig winds up playing the ball, which becomes an inside-the-park HR. With Babe Ruth still sidelined, the shorthanded Yankees send P Red Ruffing to the outfield. The game's most significant play comes with Lyn Lary on base when Lou Gehrig's drive into the CF stands at Washington bounces back and is caught by CF Harry Rice. According to the rules, this is a home run, but when Lary sees Rice catching the ball, he thinks it's the final out of the inning. Unnoticed by Joe McCarthy, coaching at 3B, Lary heads for the dugout after crossing 3B. Gehrig circles the bases. He is called out and gets credit for a triple instead of a HR and loses 2 RBI. As a result Gehrig will end the season tied for the HR title with Babe Ruth and will have "only" 184 RBI."